Dege: Tell me some cool stories about touring in the sixties.

Doyle: Well, for one, we used to have bass player who slept with his eyes open…and snored at the same time.

Dege: That’s weird.

Doyle. Yeh, kind of creepy.

Dege: How did ya’ll get around back then? You had a van?

Doyle: I was playing in the Chessmen (Legendary Texas Rock Band) and we traveled around in a hearse.

Dege: A hearse?

Doyle: Well, in those days you didn’t have as many vans and stuff like now, so most of the bands used hearses to haul their equipment around in. It was one of the only things that would hold all the gear and stuff.

Dege: That’s hilarious!

Doyle: Yeh, it was funny to see—a bunch of rock & roll bands—kids really—driving around during the peace and love sixties in hearses.

Dege: In Texas, no less!

Doyle: I know. We used to get a lot of funny looks from rednecks and families. And we were the first band that I know of to get one. Within a year, everybody had a hearse.

Dege: That’s so badass. I can see it.

Doyle: We eventually upgraded to an old school bus…to fit all our stuff, the roadie, and ourselves. Our first gig in it was at a car convention in New Orleans where the Bat Mobile was the main attraction. So anyway…we took off down I-10, all excited about our new, used bus and the gig and all.

Dege: Ready to rock.

Doyle: Everything went smooth. It ran well. Then we got to that big bridge in Baton Rouge.

Dege: I-10 River Bridge.

Doyle: Yeh…that big, steep bridge. Well, the driver didn’t take into consideration that we might need to get going really fast to get over the incline…so we got about two-thirds up the bridge…and the bus started struggling and popping out of gear. Fucker wouldn’t stay in gear but a few seconds, then it’d pop out. We kept grinding our way up, gradually losing more and more speed…until all of a sudden…we began rolling backwards…wrong way down the bridge.

Dege: Tripped out!

Doyle: We were all screaming and freaking out, thinking we were gonna die. There were cars passing us, honking and cussing. So we all ran to the front of the bus and started grabbing the gearshift, trying to help the driver shove it back in gear. And it kept popping back out and grinding. Finally, one of the guys took off his belt and lashed it around the gearshift to the emergency brake—to hold it in place—and somehow, it worked. Kept it in gear. And we made it over that fucking bridge, over the hill, and into New Orleans. Played the gig. Had a good time. But on the way back, you can bet your ass we got that bus moving at a good clip on our approach to that bridge so we wouldn’t have a replay of the day before. And we made it over all right and back to Texas. But then—wouldn’t you know it—we were 5mins outside of Dallas and it died on us—just quit on us, completely. And we never took that piece of shit out again. Our “new bus” last exactly one gig.

Dege: Great story. What year was that?

Doyle: 1967.

Dege: Then it was back to the hearses.

Doyle: Yep.

Dege: So those things ran pretty good? Who made them?

Doyle: Cadillac. I think we ended up getting a ’59, I think.

Around that same time—for another gig—we hired this guy to drive for us. We had a gig in Houston. Made it there. We played the gig. It was a good show, but we were pretty tired, so decided to drive back to Dallas that night after the gig. So the guy that was hired to drive us and do the equipment got behind the wheel and we headed home. About an hour outside of Houston, we all crashed out, except, the guy driving.

Dege: Of course.

Doyle: It was a long drive. I was sound asleep—I don’t know for how long—but then, for some reason, I woke up…looked out the window…and we were in mid-air.

Dege: What the fuck happened?

Doyle: Well, it turns out the guy had fallen asleep behind the wheel, crossed the median, crossed the other lane, and blew down into a deep ravine. We came out of that ravine with all that speed and launched ourselves about 20 feet in the air, through a fence, and into a dead stop in a farmer’s field.

Dege: Insane!

Doyle: Came to a dead stop in the middle of this field. Middle of the night. And remember, I’d just woken up…and I look over…and there’s a goddamn cow just standing there looking at me.

Dege: Eye to eye with that cow.

Doyle: 10 feet away…just standing there chewing on some grass. He didn’t even flinch.

Dege: What was it like playing with Lightnin’ Hopkins?

Doyle: It was great. Loved it, but it could be tough, because Lightnin’ kind of played at his own tempo and time. Never knew when he was going change. He used to say, “Lightnin’ change when he wanna change.” So he was always throwing the band off with the changes. A lot stops and breaks, here and there. It was always different all the time.

Dege: That’s tough to follow for a drummer.

Doyle: And the house was always packed for his gigs and if you didn’t hit the change right, he’d stop the show…and point you out to the crowd. And then he’d say something like, “Me and the bass player gotta get it together” or “Me and the guitar player gotta get it together” or whoever.

Dege: He ever call you out?

Doyle: No, fortunately he didn’t. I guess I passed the test.

Dege: What was he like off stage?

Doyle: He was kind of ornery. You didn’t want to piss him off. But he was a great storyteller and he was just great to play with…but he was kind of a tough old guy.

Dege: Did ya’ll ever play “Give Me Back Wig” or “Wig Wearing Woman” or whatever that song’s called? I love that song.

Doyle: No, that was Hound Dog Taylor.

Dege: The guy with six fingers?

Doyle: Yeh, that’s him. Stevie (Ray Vaughan) did a version of that.

Dege: How was it?

Doyle: Great. It was never released, but it was recorded.

Dege: How much unreleased Stevie Ray Vaughan material is there?

Doyle: Probably not a lot of recordings, but there’s a bunch of video footage.

Dege: Stuff that’s yet to be compiled for DVD?

Doyle: Yeh. I’m sure there’s enough stuff out there to where, every year, something could be released.

Dege: How was it that you and Jimmie and Stevie all met?

Doyle: I was already in the Chessmen…I’d joined at the end of 1964. And in 1966, one of the founding members, Robert Patton, drowned…at a lake in Dallas, in a hazing accident—really a shame…just stupid stuff—a waste of life. But anyway, we ended up holding auditions at this club in Dallas and we had several guitar players come in and play. And one of them was recommended by our other guitar player. He said, “I know this 15 year old kid from Okcliff named Jimmie Vaughan that’s really good. We ought to try him out.” So Jimmie came out to the club the next day just blew everybody away and we hired him immediately. And as most people know, Stevie was Jimmie’s little brother. After Jimmie joined the band, Stevie started hanging out as well.

Dege: Ya’ll were just kids at time?

Doyle: Yeh, we were young. I was 17. Jimmie was 15. And Stevie was a few years younger.

Dege: That must’ve been an awesome experience, being that young and playing in gigging band.

Doyle: Yeh, it was great. I’ll never forget that time as long as I live. And believe it or not, we were making a lot of money.

Dege: Seriously?

Doyle: Yeh, I was 17, driving a brand new GTO and had a record on the radio. I remember driving up to school and my song would be playing on the radio. It was good time.

Dege: Badass!

Doyle: The disc jockey in Dallas knew I was still in high school and asked me what time I got to school in the morning. I told him I usually get there about 7:45am in the morning. So for about two weeks at about that time in the morning, he’d play our song.

Dege: I bet that did wonders for your self-esteem.

Doyle: Ah, man, it was great. After about the fifth day of that, everyone in the parking lot would be standing out there, jamming it on their car radios with me. I ended up dating the head cheerleader. After that, that football team hated my fucking guts.

Dege: What was Austin like in the sixties?

Doyle: It wasn’t as big as it is now, but it was still a lot of fun. You know, Farrah Fawcet went to UT. She’d come to our gigs, party, and having a good time.

Dege: Was she hot back then?

Doyle: Oh, she was real hot. Farrah and her gang would come out to the shows a lot. University of Texas in the sixties was beautiful.

Dege: Summer of Love!

Dege: Do they have “Crazy Checks” in England, like in America, where you can get on disability if you’re insane?

BritDude: You can get “Sectioned.” It means you’re a “mental person.” It’s like jail…no trial, no jury, no nothing. It’s really fucked up.

Dege: Like…legitimately mental?

BritDude: That’s one of my worst fears, really. You’re put away for 6 months, sectioned. You are there for 6 months; no negotiations.

Dege: How easy is it for the government to section you off?

BritDude: Your parents have to declare that you are mental. And they have to a have a doctor certify you as such.

Dege: Is there a 3-Strike rule where after you’ve been sectioned a number of times, they just commit you indefinitely?

BritDude: No…I’ve got a friend that’s been in and out of mental homes for, like, 10 years and he hasn’t been indefinitely committed. He’d do things like chase his dad around the garden with a sledgehammer on Christmas day.

Dege: That’s a lovely picture. Are there street gangs in England?

BritDude: Yeh, Yeh…but they’re not like Bloods and Crips. They’re like Yardies. Triads. I don’t really know. There’s really more like “crews”…who I think name themselves after the estate they live on.

Dege: How much money do you get when you live on the Dole?

BritDude: I think about 90 quid a week. And then they pay your rent for you. So you get the Dole and the rent paid.

Dege: How is it with the economy in England, job-wise, for young folks trying to find employment?

BritDude: Really well. Everyone’s going to the university and everyone’s working. We work more hours than anyone else in Europe.

Dege: Does it have a similar intensity to the American work week?

BritDude: Yeh. I think it’s a 48-hour week. The French, those cunts, only work, like, 30 hours a week.

Dege: Why does everyone hate the French?

BritDude: Because they’re the French! They stink of garlic. (laughs uncontrollably) …and they haven’t won a war since the 18th Century.

Dege: What exactly is a “punter?”

BritDude: Like someone in bar who is buying a drink or paying for something.

Dege: Is that bad?

BritDude: It’s just average. In England, to make a bet or a wager is to make a punt.

Dege: What’s a “nutter?”

BritDude: Someone who is mental…or simply fucking nuts.

Dege: How far of a drive is it from London to Stonehenge?

BritDude: About an hour and a half.

Dege: And how long of a drive is it from the bottom of England up to the very top by car?

BritDude: I believe about 8 or 9 hours.

Dege: You British are charming bastards. Earlier, I was reading some of the men’s room graffiti—even that stuff has a poetic lilt to it that you don’t find in America—stuff about “All is none and all for naught. Fraught with your idle praise….” It’s like somebody’s thesis in the bathroom wall.

BritDude: It’s the language; we invented it.

Dege: I can’t think of any other questions off the top of my head.

BritDude: It’s been good talking with you.

Dege: Hold up. You just made a weird face at me. What is does that mean?

BritDude: (laughing) Oh, I’m sorry. I chipped my tooth today. I’m feeling it out.

Dege: How’d you do that?

Dege: Why do you bartend?

Chick1: Why…I’m soon…because I will need some extra money. And I like bartending.

Chick2: Me, too. I need the money for my two children…for because I like people to meet.

Dege: Seriously?

Chick1: Yeh, is true. I have two jobs. And working the bar is very nice, because it goes so fast. Once you busy, there is a lot of crowds, a lot of people. You are busy all the time and your evening goes by fast.

Dege: How much money do you make…in a night?

Chick1: 8 euro…an hour.

Dege: Do they tip here in Belgium, because is some other European countries; I’ve noticed, it’s not always customary.

Chick1: No. They do not tip. In American they don’t…don’t they take the tickets??

Dege: Tickets?

Chick2: No, we don’t get tips here, but we only…we get paid by every hour, so if we work 4 hours, we make, like…um…32 euros.

Dege: And is that enough to survive on?

Chick2: No, No…bartending is always for…extra money. For base.

Dege: What would your dream job…that you would like to do?

Chick1: Coffee bar.

Dege: That’s the same thing a girl in Norway told me…a bartender there. She loved pleasing people. She’s, like, “I like making people happy.” I thought that was so cool and humble. In America, so many people are ganked-up on greed and want to own the world.

Chick2: My dream job would be, like, how you say, creating jewels?

Dege: Jewels…yes.

Chick2: Because I am kind of creative, but I never got to do something with that, because my parents told me you have to go to university…you have to study. But I like to be on my own. I am creative person and being busy with all kinds of handcrafts…but I never got the chance.

Dege: Ok, that’s cool.

Chick2: I have to go…because to clean up rest of bar. It’s almost time for close. (walks off to clean bar).

Dege: Do you need me to leave? I see it’s past closing time.

Chick1: No, she is just going to check work.

Dege: Cool. Do you have boyfriends out here or are you married?

Chick1: I have boyfriend, here, but now he is in Spain, because he studies there for one year. Errazzmuzz (?) is cold, here. It’s an exchange project, so he goes there for one year…and then he comes back.

Dege: At what age do people usually get married here in Belgium?

Chick1: Between 25 and 30 years old. That’s the average. Before 30…that’s…not before 25.

Dege: That’s similar to America. And how do young people like Belgian society? Is it too repressed or is it…

Chick1: No, No…there is democracy here and people are very free to say all kinds of things. Yeh, I like living in Belgium. Belgium is very good country to live in. There is social security and all kinds of things.

Dege: Health care?

Chick1: Health care, everything…so we are very lucky here.

Dege: Last question, real quick. Why do some Europeans dislike Americans?

Dege: Why do the Dutch love porn so much?

RoadManager: Because it’s really cold here and porn warms us up.

Dege: Is that so?

RoadManager: But chicks don’t like porn—it’s like the same in every county.

Dege: I don’t know, man. I know some American chicks they dig themselves some porn. They may not brag about it, but…

RoadManager: I don’t know.

Dege: How long has prostitution been legal in Holland?

RoadManager I don’t know. I have no idea…for as long as I can remember and I am 29.

Dege: Long as you can remember?

RoadManager: I think since the 1950’s, maybe and the war, because they never made any big problems. All the harbor cities we have here—full of sailors who wanted pussy.

Dege: So that’s where it comes from…sailors wanting sex? What kind of girls usually go into the prostitution business?

RoadManager: Girls who need money. Students.

Dege: Student chicks?

RoadManager Yeh, a lot of students.

Dege: And they get out of it when they get their school is finished?

RoadManager: Yeh, mostly something like that. Depends on how good they are.

Dege: What do you mean…good at school or prostituting?

RoadManager: School. Then they go on. And mostly the ones that end up as Escort Girl…are the ones that make a lot of money.

Dege: What is that, like, the next step up in prostitution?

RoadManager: That’s the next step up.

Dege: And would you say that prostitution’s ranks are filled with all classes of women?

RoadManager: Yeh, but maybe the rich girls do it just for fun. But there are many Eastern European chicks that get brought over here and made promises…and stuck in that work.

Dege: Yeh, I’ve heard a lot of them get lured over and drafted…kind of.

RoadManager: Yeh.

Dege: Russian chicks and the like. Some of them are kidnapped even…

RoadManager: Yes, it happens. Nice chicks, though.

Dege: Yeh??

RoadManager: Yeh.

Dege: And what does the average Dutch family think about all of this? Is this all just completely normal to Dutch society?

RoadManager: I don’t know. Most…some people have a problem with it…they are just narrow minded, Christian people. And…uh, people carry a garatzl (indecipherable?). And they got to do it.

Dege: Uh…

RoadManager: The funny thing is…when you go to the CWI, the job employment agency…since prostitution is legal here…it is listed on government forms and stuff when you apply for welfare and assistance. There is a space there to check, saying: PROSTITUTE.

Dege: No shit.

RoadManager: Yeh, and listen to this…when you get government assistance, you have to apply for jobs every week to show that you are trying, so…theoretically, if you have welfare, as a woman, you have to apply and take a job that’s available in you area.

Dege: Oh, shit! So theoretically, the state can force you to go into prostitution if you are a woman on welfare who is looking for a job.

RoadManager: Yes, but it never happens. They don’t force them, but theoretically, on paper, it’s possible. But it doesn’t happen. Nobody is going to force you to be a prostitute in Holland. But theoretically…

Dege: You Dutch like tinkering around in the theoretical world, huh?

RoadManager: (laughs) Yeh, man.

Dege: You ever go to jail in Holland? What are the prisons like here?

RoadManager: It’s not too bad. You get one little cell. You get a TV, toilet, shower…maybe no shower. Sometimes people go to jail just to get a place to sleep and stay.

Dege: So it’s kind of an extension of the welfare assistance program?

RoadManager: If what you see about American prisons in the movies is anything like it really is…

Dege: It’s worse in some ways.

RoadManager: …than Holland is much better. You won’t get raped in Holland prison. They treat you with more human rights.

Dege: Do people rob banks here and shit?

RoadManager: Yeh, actually they do.

Dege: So the criminals are kind of gutsy and industrious?

RoadManager: Yeh, not that far away from the city we were in yesterday, a 16-year-old dude robbed a bank without a gun…held some people hostage for 6 hours. Then they let a dog run into him and bite him in his leg…and then he gave up.

Dege: Kind of ballsy. Next question…how come dogs are such a big part of Dutch Society? Every other bar I walk into, over here, there’s a dog just walking around, hanging out like a barfly.

RoadManager: The Dutch love dogs.

Dege: Are there any good Dutch bands?

RoadManager: Yes, there are some good punk bands, but many of the other bands…just imitating what is happening in America. Like nu-metal.

Dege: Newsflash—They finally killed that off a couple years ago in the U.S. Now it’s pop punk bands, with a few dissonant chords in tight pants, calling themselves emo or screamo.

RoadManager: Yuck.

Dege: Does the underground music scene in Holland, suffer from any kind of provincialism? Like cliques and things like that?

RoadManager: What do you mean?

Dege: Like petty bullshit where bands don’t support one another unless it’s politically advantageous—to get gigs or whatever.